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Jayd
Lady Bandit

3290 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  05:57:45  Show Profile Send Jayd a Private Message
Has anyone noticed a difference in their pvp battles since the patch (3.0.2)?

Is your character better or worse, or is it a wash because all your enemies have new talents too?

Have you noticed the bug (cheat!) in AV that allows horde to take SHB as Alliance is leaving the gate?

I feel like hunters were somewhat nerfed, especially NEs. Shadowmeld isn't very useful in pvp anymore and kill command has a long timer. I forget what other changes bother me. However, Jayd seems to be better one-on-one and can even take down a warrior, in the right situation (Jayd dies and runs back to kill warrior while he's still licking his wounds. lol) Pallies are tough because of their armor and heals but they have trouble taking Jayd down too because of her pet (spells) and traps. Also, being able to rez my pet in battle with full health (10 min cooldown) is definitely not a nerf! [:)]

Part of me doesn't like the changes but Jayd seems a lot more viable one-on-one....but...not without my pet.

I have been reading some whining posts by hunters on the pvp forum. I feel their pain but I just have to adapt I guess.

So, how's your character doing since the patch (pvp-wise)?


lotro

Pach
Bandit Dwagon

18375 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  06:18:39  Show Profile Send Pach a Private Message
I don't PvP much, but I'm interested in hearing how you take down say, a warrior as a BM hunter.

Or a rogue. I simply hate it when I'm stunlocked. :(

--Pach
Pacha, 65 hobbit burglar
Apachalypse, 30-something dorf guardian
... and a whole bunch of other alts with "Pach" in them...
(retired) WoW: Pach, level 80!! Night Elf Rogue (Pockaholic with dragon flying mount)
"Life is good. Flight is better." -- me
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Oogluk
Bandit Princess

5348 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  06:25:39  Show Profile Send Oogluk a Private Message
Same :P


I'v eonly PvPed a little since Patch. I don't know if it was this way prior to patch but I'e played a few Warsong gulches wher eI stayed bakc on Defense. When paired with a dps class liek a ret pally or a hunter that knows what thye are doing, we cna hold the flag room. PLayed 3 or 4 WSG and they all ran an hour or more cause neither side was able to get the flag and get it out of the room.

-------------

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"Save a RAID, Hug a Healer
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MagusOfAtlan
Bandit Noble

4519 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  07:18:36  Show Profile Send MagusOfAtlan a Private Message
I wouldn't complain about horde actually having a chance in AV. Since they moved the Horde starting cave waaaaaaaaaay back, our Horde server almost never wins. It was moved way to far back. Also, the setup of the "towns" in AV is to the advantage of Alliance. You really ought to be winning the vast majority of the time.

I'm with Pach on better ways to maul rogues, though it won't matter much to me, I suppose. I've pretty much given up on PvP, it's just not fun for me.

-------------------------
Celestia, Zugbug - Whisperwind
Celz (70 hunter), Cyllan (70 tankadin), Kulzor (70 resto druid) - Windrunner
The Hordites (run with Celz): Kulzora (70 boomkin), Cyllz (70 fire mage), Zugbug (#2) (70 elem. shaman)
Posted by Mouse: The Mouse Hegemony is on the side of evil. Long live Amy the Cruel!
Posted by Amy: hehe I have the Mouse on my side, more cheese for him !!!!
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Ease
Easy Bandit

2876 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  07:25:39  Show Profile Send Ease a Private Message
Jayd, I don't see how shadowmeld can be worse than it was before. It can be used like a vanish now. I'm not sure how effective it is, but it certainly has more utility than it did before...

I once was a member
then an officer
promoted to guild leader
and then became a dad.
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Jayd
Lady Bandit

3290 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  07:40:20  Show Profile Send Jayd a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ease

Jayd, I don't see how shadowmeld can be worse than it was before. It can be used like a vanish now. I'm not sure how effective it is, but it certainly has more utility than it did before...



SM: 2 min timer, can't sm and eat anymore, aoe or aggroed pet breaks it (aoe always broke it though). I just haven't found sm to be near as effective now. That timer is a killer. Besides, it's not like sm was foolproof in the past. It was just more reliable because of the short timer and the ability to eat while sm'd.

Also, it's kind of hard to use sm like vanish when fighting humans. They don't fall for it.

lotro
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Simplesimon
Bandit Soldier

806 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  09:07:16  Show Profile Send Simplesimon a Private Message
I've seen the SHB cap glitch in one AV so far, I was running out of the gate and then bang it's being capped.

I've only been PvPing with my lock so far and finding it about the same as before. I do think it's nice to be able to see everyone's health now though, makes it easier to plan casts. The only big thing I've noticed is the AV NPCs are much easier to take down now.


"Speaking and writing is an ever renewed struggle to be both apposite and intelligible, and every word that is finally uttered is a confession of our incapacity to do better; but each time we have finished saying something and let it stand, we tacitly imply also that this says what we mean and should mean it therefore also to the listener or reader." - Michael Polanyi

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world." - Buddha

"The answer to any question is meaningless unless you understand why" - Me
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Magthere
Bandit Noble

1722 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  09:51:32  Show Profile  Send Magthere an AOL message Send Magthere a Private Message
I've been loving PVP with my warrior. Since the big increase in prot DPS I can finally do enough damage to effectively PVP with a shield on, which of course means that all my fun prot abilities that require a shield I can now use, like silencing shield bash, spell reflect. Combine that with the really nice new damage shield that in block gear is doing 200 dmg per hit and the new in combat/any stance charge, it's a whole new world.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Einstein

-Warriors do it with protection
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Jayd
Lady Bandit

3290 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  10:57:47  Show Profile Send Jayd a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Pach

I don't PvP much, but I'm interested in hearing how you take down say, a warrior as a BM hunter.

Or a rogue. I simply hate it when I'm stunlocked. :(



Well, first of all, I last longer in a battle than my opponent expects. It makes me chuckle when I think, "aren't you ever going to kill me?"

Pach, I don't know how much resilience you have on your pvp characters but I find it really makes a difference in how long you can last in a fight.

So, resilience is my top priority.

Next, I have to make sure my pet's intimidation is active. I will often target an opponent who is out of los (downstairs, upstairs, around a building, etc.) Then I chase after my pet and do my best to drop a snake trap before the warrior/rogue/whoever can stun or disable me in some way. Then I cast bestial wrath (removing disabling effects). Keep in mind, my pet is still on my opponent. I don't always get off an arrow shot before I am attacked. If the opponent decides to fight my pet, then I can fire away.

There are so many variables that it's hard to tell you how I take down any one opponent. If I am running into a mob of horde, I drop a frost trap, cast intimidation on my aggressive pet, FD, get up run, turn around, fire (unless I am dead).

The warrior I killed the other day was in south DB bunker. We were alone. By the time he killed me and my pet, he was at approx 20% health. I rezzed at the aid station, ran back to the bunker where the warrior was trying to heal. That's when I killed him. I have killed other opponents one-on-one and I am getting better at it, but it's a process. I have killed other warriors (not many) one-on-one but it had to be dumb luck or their poor gear.

I was in the field of strife, waiting to die from a rogue the other day, when I killed him. *shock* I have killed every class alone, except a druid. I seem to have more trouble with them because of all their bells and whistles and ability to go into animal form and run away. Priests can be a pain too. In fact, any well-played character is hard to kill, no matter what the class.

One thing I do a lot, since I am forced to be up-close-and-personal with my opponent (unless he/she is a hunter) is continually jump over my opponent while being attacked. Constant stuns from a rogue can prohibit that though. If I can, I move around a lot.

DPS is not my top priority because I don't find it that beneficial unless I am fighting another hunter. Maybe that sounds strange but it's just the way it is in pvp. Nobody is cooperative enough to stand back so I can hit them with my bow and arrow. There are times when I can stand behind a tree (when a group of us are fighting) and my dps is sufficient. On the other hand, a hunter has to be real good, or have help, to take me down. My pet always seems to be better than the other guy's pet.

These things I depend on for pvp:
Resilience
Traps (mostly frost)
Intimidation & Bestial wrath
Other hunter spells and shot rotation
Shadowmeld (not since patch though)
Constant movement
DPS
Smack talk and /dance (rofl)


lotro
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Pach
Bandit Dwagon

18375 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  12:06:20  Show Profile Send Pach a Private Message
Thanks for the info, Jayd. My PvP hunter just hit 70, so her resilliance is nil. :(

Do you normally keep your pet on agressive? What usually happens with me, is this:

rogue stealths in and stuns me. Fight is over. By the time I get out of stunlock, I'm at the graveyard.

druid stealths in and dps me. Sometimes I live through this, with the help of friends, or getting lucky getting some distance. I probably just need more stamina, to live through initial onslaughts. :(

warrior charges me, and by the time the stun wears off, I'm half dead, and at melee range. Getting distance again is nearly impossible. Warrior finishes me off (ignoring pet).

This is on a PvP server, so most everyone knows to ignore the hunter's pet. :(

Warlocks, mages, and priests tend to leave me alone. Those, pet with dash + intimidation + bestial wrath tend to make squishy spots on the ground. While they are busy trying to fear an unfearable pet off them (or frost nova, or what have you), I'm smacking them with everything I've got from range. ;)

Hunters... same thing you mentioned: depends on skill and gear (I have crappy gear, but I also have friends, so it just depends...)

Haven't had many interactions with pallys or shammies since the patch. Pallies are an exercise in wearing someone down... and how well I can stay away from them and keep from getting stunned.

--Pach
Pacha, 65 hobbit burglar
Apachalypse, 30-something dorf guardian
... and a whole bunch of other alts with "Pach" in them...
(retired) WoW: Pach, level 80!! Night Elf Rogue (Pockaholic with dragon flying mount)
"Life is good. Flight is better." -- me
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Counterfeit
Bandit Noble

2054 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  15:30:55  Show Profile Send Counterfeit a Private Message
As a note, pre-patch hunters were consider warriors counter in arenas. Hunter beats Warrior, Warrior beats Rogue, Rogue beats Lock, Lock beats Hunter generally in 2v2 all generally with druids healers, thou disc priests were common too.

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Zanthos
Bandit Soldier

876 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  21:24:59  Show Profile  Click to see Zanthos's MSN Messenger address Send Zanthos a Private Message
You mean BG servers have actually been up long enough to finish a fight since patch 3.0? :P

Playing as a lock there have been some good changes. Affliction your dots hit even harder than ever (with 2 of them that heal you for 100% of the damage you do) Demonology that new demon form is kinda nice (600% armor bonus and 40% shorter duration on moment slowing effects/stuns). Chaos bolt as destruction you can now shoot through priest shields and cloak of shadow (no more cussing as the enemy get away shielded with only 2% health left) Granted only been in a few matches since the new talents were released and been mostly retired from pvp since Burning Crusade came out.


Xanthos - 70 Warlock, 375 Skinner, 375 Enchanter
Zanthos - 70 Paladin, 375 Miner, 365 Weaponsmith (Hammersmith)

Edited by - Zanthos on 10/21/2008 21:26:03
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Jayd
Lady Bandit

3290 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2008 :  11:05:38  Show Profile Send Jayd a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Pach

Thanks for the info, Jayd. My PvP hunter just hit 70, so her resilliance is nil. :(

Do you normally keep your pet on agressive? What usually happens with me, is this:

rogue stealths in and stuns me. Fight is over. By the time I get out of stunlock, I'm at the graveyard.

druid stealths in and dps me. Sometimes I live through this, with the help of friends, or getting lucky getting some distance. I probably just need more stamina, to live through initial onslaughts. :(

warrior charges me, and by the time the stun wears off, I'm half dead, and at melee range. Getting distance again is nearly impossible. Warrior finishes me off (ignoring pet).

This is on a PvP server, so most everyone knows to ignore the hunter's pet. :(

Warlocks, mages, and priests tend to leave me alone. Those, pet with dash + intimidation + bestial wrath tend to make squishy spots on the ground. While they are busy trying to fear an unfearable pet off them (or frost nova, or what have you), I'm smacking them with everything I've got from range. ;)

Hunters... same thing you mentioned: depends on skill and gear (I have crappy gear, but I also have friends, so it just depends...)

Haven't had many interactions with pallys or shammies since the patch. Pallies are an exercise in wearing someone down... and how well I can stay away from them and keep from getting stunned.



I think that playing on a pvp server has to be vastly different than playing in a BG. You play pve & pvp simultaneously. I pvp in a controlled environment.

You have leveled your way up, from 20-70, in a hostile environment. One the other hand, I played in BGs with Jayd at level 60 & 70 and nothing in between or before. I always know what's expected of my character, where you don't know what's going to happen next. I am sure you will agree with me when I say that on a pvp server, you are playing a more difficult version of wow.

In a way, it seems odd to me, that you would have to start going to BGs to get gear that will help you survive on your pvp server. But I guess that's what you have to do, right? The first thing I would get is the medallion of the alliance trinket that lets you get out of stun/fear effects (until you are immediately stunned/feared again, lol. I hate that.)

What I do and what you do, as far as pvp is concerned, is like comparing apples to oranges and you are playing the harder game.

lotro
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Pach
Bandit Dwagon

18375 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2008 :  12:33:36  Show Profile Send Pach a Private Message
Well, yes... and no. I imagine you don't typically have a freezing trap set just behind you when you are questing (a lesson learned to deal with the HUGE number of rogue/druid gankers...)

How do you get back to range if someone manages to close in on you, and at least has you constantly dazed? Disengage works... once... and sometimes, I can frost trap... but if they have me dazed, I'm done.

Doesn't help that I just hit 70, and everyone around me is in T5 gear... ouch.

--Pach
Pacha, 65 hobbit burglar
Apachalypse, 30-something dorf guardian
... and a whole bunch of other alts with "Pach" in them...
(retired) WoW: Pach, level 80!! Night Elf Rogue (Pockaholic with dragon flying mount)
"Life is good. Flight is better." -- me
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Qatrina
Bandit Kitten

10648 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2008 :  14:21:37  Show Profile Send Qatrina a Private Message
I love those freezing traps, Pach. Rogues are soo my bane since they would stun lock my holy/disc priest and she would be dead before the stun wore off. I am just hoping the new talents will help alleviate some of that. Though I still suck at PVP if I actually have to deal out damage. I do great at PVP in a group when I just have to worry about keeping everyone alive.


LOTRO costars: Qatsmeow level 51 Elf Runekeeper Tinker, Qatastrophy level 56 Human Warden, Qitqat, Purrfyct, Qitty, Stalkeress, Qatrisma, Qitten, Grumpyqat

Syrdeth: If excuses were mooses, this would be Alaska.

Member of Pillow for Poco, Inc.



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yan
Bandit Noble

1194 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  14:12:17  Show Profile Send yan a Private Message
ditto here on the rogue stuns. I get the impression when a rogue stunlocks you its all over.. just a matter of time until your at the graveyard.
WTB anti-stunlock button. Paying 10bazillion g :P

Also with the new talent changes, scattershot is no longer accessable in the MM tree. which is a pain in pve when your trap breaks.

_______________
Yans, Tybar,Kaliswith in LOTRO

Other characters scattered randomly in random games.
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Zanthos
Bandit Soldier

876 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  15:56:21  Show Profile  Click to see Zanthos's MSN Messenger address Send Zanthos a Private Message
Tried out Demon form in pvp, for the 30 seconds you are in that form rogues do have a harder time killing you. I've got pretty good gear so 600% armor bonus puts me up at about 20,000 armor and stuns are 40% less on its duration. Then you soul link (15% damage done to you transfers to pet) and use Demonic Empowerment on a felguard gives him 17k+ armor and becomes bestial wrath like pet (breaks and becomes immune to all stun, fear and snare effects plus increase his attack speed 20%)


Xanthos - 70 Warlock, 375 Skinner, 375 Enchanter
Zanthos - 70 Paladin, 375 Miner, 365 Weaponsmith (Hammersmith)
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Jayd
Lady Bandit

3290 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  21:30:50  Show Profile Send Jayd a Private Message
I finally saw what bug allows horde to get out of the gate in av before the start. Lag causes the gate not to materialize at the beginning of the instance. In fact, av lag has gotten worse each day since the patch. Today, my pet bar wouldn't show up.

lotro
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Simplesimon
Bandit Soldier

806 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2008 :  05:19:11  Show Profile Send Simplesimon a Private Message
I've seen something similar with my lock Jayd. I'd come riding up somehwere, dismount and start attacking, and within 5 seconds my pet would disappear. Not killed, just gone. And on occasion it would not respawn with me at the graveyard.

"Speaking and writing is an ever renewed struggle to be both apposite and intelligible, and every word that is finally uttered is a confession of our incapacity to do better; but each time we have finished saying something and let it stand, we tacitly imply also that this says what we mean and should mean it therefore also to the listener or reader." - Michael Polanyi

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world." - Buddha

"The answer to any question is meaningless unless you understand why" - Me
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